tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post1476642724083673780..comments2024-03-18T08:38:01.678+00:00Comments on The Life And Opinions of Andrew Rilstone: 7: ApproachUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-88317549195771424082010-09-11T23:56:15.524+01:002010-09-11T23:56:15.524+01:00It strikes me that there is (or was, more often, i...It strikes me that there is (or was, more often, in the past) a certain category of romantic intellectual, prone to grand theorising about Cultures and Peoples and Mythologies, who would end up drawing grand and negative conclusions about "followers of the God of Abraham" or "Semitic peoples" or "the Jewish race" (or "the black race" or "the Asian peoples" or whatever) - but if you pointed out how what they said would apply to any given Jewish person (or black or Asian or...), would be genuinely shocked and would wave their hands and would say that <i>of course</i> they didn't mean...<br /><br />See also: H.P.Lovecraft.<br /><br />Post-1945, such people might get very irritated that that nasty Mr Hitler had made it so difficult for them to express and develop their Grand Theories without being accused of such irrelevant and unjustified unpleasantnesses as anti-Semitism. Kind of missing the fact that said nasty man got where he did largely because people took such Grand Theories a bit too seriously.Phil Mastershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12533451060065715833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-60032635321424903992010-09-09T17:17:34.259+01:002010-09-09T17:17:34.259+01:00As a cultural Jew myself, I can only read "No...As a cultural Jew myself, I can only read "Now, the other kind of God, the bad kind, believed in by modern, light-skinned people and especially Jews, [...] That's why the Big Bad Jew crucified him" as a charge of anti-Semitism. I don't see any difference between "the bad kind of God is believed in by Jews, and the Big Bad Jew crucified Jesus" and a dislike of the Jewish people en masse. I don't think that many Jews who grew up a predominantly Christian country would see the difference either.<br /><br />If you wanted to say that you weren't really charging Campbell with anti-Semitism, you'd have to take his argument more seriously than to characterize it as you have. As I remember it, it's first of all an attack against religious literalism, of the "closed religion bad, open religion good" sort. Campbell thinks that the kind of Christianity that doesn't really believe in anything Christian except as symbolism is better than the kind that says that it believes in a literal Jesus etc., and he thinks that turning religion into psychological symbolism is much more prevalent in Christianity than in Judaism. Secondly, it's an attack on the specifically Jewish mythic background, which Campbell says is more brutal in its justification of war than other mythic backgrounds. (And -- as I keep coming back to Dawkins here for reasons that may eventually become clear -- this is essentially the same thing that Dawkins does when he talks about the damage that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism have done and puts them together as the Abrahamic religions.)<br /><br />I don't think that Campbell's argument is particularly good, for lots of reasons. But to approach it as anything but plain anti-Semitism, you have to stop seeing Campbell as a person who simply believes that all myths are the same and allow him some greater complexity.Rich Puchalskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13565210317964576866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-7222104973902673972010-09-09T16:47:14.622+01:002010-09-09T16:47:14.622+01:00Did I say he was anti-Semitic? Doesn't think m...Did I say he was anti-Semitic? Doesn't think much of the Jewish god, and the Old Testament. Dislikes Jewish people en masse? Not so far as I know.<br /><br />INTERESTING CULTURAL NOTE: I didn't quite say that he said "Eastern myth bad, Western myth good". I said that he thought that Eastern Myths were A Good Thing. People of my cultural heritage would spot that this was a reference to two of my tribes most celebrated historigraphers, W.C Sellers and R.C Yeatman. Furriners may not spot the nuance.Andrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05786623930392936889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-92174407788883079032010-09-09T16:16:38.474+01:002010-09-09T16:16:38.474+01:00This post is a good deal closer to an attack on wh...This post is a good deal closer to an attack on what Campbell actually wrote. 'This bad religion is described as being "closed"; the good kind is described as being "open"' is something that's a recognizeable simplification of him, unlike 'Eastern myth good, Western myth bad.'<br /><br />As for the anti-Semitic charges, well, it's a bad sign when someone is called an anti-Semite and one of his defenders says no he's not really, he's just a crypto-fascist. (From <a href="http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1989/nov/09/joseph-campbell-an-exchange/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.) I have to admit that once I found out about Mircea Eliade I did wonder whether two mythic universalists attracted to fascism makes a trend. This is again Dawkins-style criticism, which I don't really object to, but don't see why it shouldn't be turned in all directions.Rich Puchalskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13565210317964576866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-21956832062880832952010-09-09T13:00:41.882+01:002010-09-09T13:00:41.882+01:00Love love love love love this series, Andrew. I ho...Love love love love love this series, Andrew. I hope, now that the Antihero of 1000 Faces has coalesced into Joseph Campbell, that we're not done with Jack Kirby and George Lucas and Douglas Adams.<br /><br />"John is highly committed to the doctrine of the Trinity" is anachronistic, though, isn't it? More correct (although more wordy) to say "John is highly committed to what would eventually develop into the doctrine of the Trinity," or, "John is highly committed to the doctrine of the Trinity, even if it would take the Christian church another few centuries to stick a label on it."Keith Schooleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078256877683382439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-89938661023915273692010-09-09T11:31:36.526+01:002010-09-09T11:31:36.526+01:00That's when you say "Nelson had a hundred...That's when you say "Nelson had a hundred sails under his command" but the reader assumes that sails all had boats attached to them, isn't it?Andrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05786623930392936889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-31251256906787557562010-09-09T11:19:13.192+01:002010-09-09T11:19:13.192+01:00Word of the day: SynecdocheWord of the day: SynecdochePete Darbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349118584166359618noreply@blogger.com