tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post7388580500737607829..comments2024-03-17T11:05:22.464+00:00Comments on The Life And Opinions of Andrew Rilstone: Are the "words" printed in a comic "book" actually particularly "important"?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-27283947484468665772018-11-16T09:58:03.623+00:002018-11-16T09:58:03.623+00:00The video, if I am remembering correctly, was Jave...The video, if I am remembering correctly, was Javert's soliloquy from Les Miserables. (Who is this man, what kind of devil is he...?) To illustrate the point about Lee dialogue being like operetta.Andrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05786623930392936889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-68958993046975350422018-11-14T16:48:35.927+00:002018-11-14T16:48:35.927+00:00I'm very envious of Henry R. Kujawa. I wish I,...I'm very envious of Henry R. Kujawa. I wish I, like him, had read nothing more hate-filled that this blog-post in months.Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-87799553465093155902018-11-14T16:19:19.112+00:002018-11-14T16:19:19.112+00:00What was the video at the top of this post? It doe...What was the video at the top of this post? It doesn't exist any more.Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-74833330729847861042014-08-25T22:12:59.785+01:002014-08-25T22:12:59.785+01:00@ Henry -- I truthfully don't think you can ha...@ Henry -- I truthfully don't think you can have read what I wrote.Andrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05786623930392936889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-3544051326513167712014-08-25T18:16:10.003+01:002014-08-25T18:16:10.003+01:00God almighty, this has to be the most misguided, w...God almighty, this has to be the most misguided, wrong-headed, HATE-FILLED pile of nonsense I've seen online in months. Not only is it an insult to Jack Kirby, it'a slso an insult to Don Mcgregor. That's knocking TWO of the BEST writers to have worked for Marvel!!<br /><br />One thing a lot of people seem completely unaware of. Jack Kirby ALWAYS wrote his own stories, from the beginning. Since the 1930s. It's only in the 1960s that he was prevented by a no-talent hack "editor" (and I used that word loosely) from writing his own dialogue.<br /><br />Lee's dialogue on Kirby's stories is often like taking a beautiful, just-constructed building, and DEFACING it with spray-painted graphitti.<br /><br />And you know what? When it comes to "humor", guys like Al Hartley & Ernie Hart were FUNNIER. And SO was Jack Kirby.Henry R. Kujawahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01607373491331529952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-62345295003058522522012-06-07T19:48:52.363+01:002012-06-07T19:48:52.363+01:00My opinion is based on the fact I like Kirby, and ...My opinion is based on the fact I like Kirby, and am not and never was a fan of super hero comics. I've always liked all sorts of comics, but didn't read Marvel comics in the '60s and was not really a fan of DC or other super hero comics either. I discovered Kirby via my interest in Edgar Rice Burroughs-Frazetta-Robert E. Howard, and Conan. In a REH fanzine I saw there was going to be a CONAN comic book, and sought it out. I had not been reading comic books for several years at the time because all my time and money (grades 4-7) were being poured into ERB, REH, covers by Frazetta, and then a broadening interest in science-fiction. I was reading Ellison (isn't the title Repent Harlequin said the Tick-Tockman something super hero fans would laugh at if Kirby wrote those words?) and Phil Farmer, Asimov, Brian Aldiss, Philip K. Dick, etc..<br />Kirby was returning to DC at that time, and when I gave his stuff a try I thought the dialogue was great. It had a flair and imagination completely different from the other comic book material I sampled and quickly lost interest in. It was unique. I also noticed that Kirby had a real knack for turning the occasional phrase which stopped me in my tracks with the thought, "wow, that is absolutely great." That NEVER happened with other Marvel or DC comics. <br />Marvel and Stan Lee meant nothing to me, I didn't read the stuff when it was being published, and along side Kirby it was weak tea. I've just got no investment in the Marvel stuff. The pictures are nice, aside from that I just can't see the attraction. Can't see the attraction in the '60s super hero comic writing period. It's not something I enjoyed then or now. <br />Patrick Fordmr edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14502298398657797233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-44534555517311693222012-06-06T19:48:18.743+01:002012-06-06T19:48:18.743+01:00All very well said.
On a slight tangent, the fact...All very well said.<br /><br />On a slight tangent, the fact that anyone ever thought Don MacGregor's prose was anything other than overwritten purple tripe makes me hold my head in my hands and moan. His world-building was excellent -- he made Wakanda a real(ish) place, and his "Killraven" future, while nonsensical to the extreme, was damned interesting and fun to read about -- but oh that prose. Lots of effort, zero control, dubious results. He tried so hard, it seems, and I wish I liked it, but I can't.Harvey Jerkwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07118848012122050416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-50397528177544974702012-06-05T16:20:19.372+01:002012-06-05T16:20:19.372+01:00In asmuchas I'm picking a side (and I basicall...In asmuchas I'm picking a side (and I basically agree with Andrew that such a thing isn't needed) I'm pro-Kirby; I think he was the visionary, whereas Lee was the talented craftsman and editor who was able to keep the guy grounded. I do have to say there were some dialogue howlers in the early going in the Fourth World--the quoted "Young, but cool, Harvey Lockman!" bit, Orion's pronouncement that "If the <b>other</b> side of good is <b>evil</b>, then surely <b>Apokolips</b> is the <b>other side!</b>", some of the more awkward exposition. But that's not the same as being BAD, exactly--it's certainly entertaining. Some of Kirby's attempts to be hip or slangy are so bizarre they loop round to being amazing ("...it switched to <b>"spook"</b> rock! Get that <b>spider</b> sound!"). More to the point, the quality of Kirby's dialogue improves dramatically in a very short time; in a mere handful of issues you can start to see him moving away from trying to imitate Stan Lee and finding his own voice (for example, towards the end of the Fourth World, Kirby starts using periods in some speech bubbles, whereas up til that point everything ended with an exclamation point.) It makes me wonder how good Kirby could have gotten if he had been writing his own stuff from the beginning.<br /><br />And that "War is the cold game of the butcher" speech is as good as anything Lee ever wrote. Or anyone else in comics, for that matter.Pranksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00676528953675160889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-12973481903605768252012-06-04T17:40:29.228+01:002012-06-04T17:40:29.228+01:00So. I preach an ecumenical sermon explaining that ...So. I preach an ecumenical sermon explaining that the Church of England and the Church of Rome believe mainly the same things, and that when there are substantive differences on technical points it is usually possible for both sides to understand the other's position. And the first person to shake my hand after the meeting says "I love the way you denounced the vile heresies of those papist dogs."Andrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16934052271846235431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-65383182254259011702012-06-04T15:37:21.372+01:002012-06-04T15:37:21.372+01:00Whenever that argument arose, I had taken to sayin...Whenever <i>that</i> argument arose, I had taken to saying "if only Lee and Kirby had created comics apart from each other, that might have given us some clue as to what each person's contribution was." There may even have been times where I had a note of sarcasm in my voice.<br /><br />Thanks for putting it all together so cogently. There were points where I felt an almost Jonah Jameson-like blend of admiration and envy!Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-36435352203622706742012-06-04T14:08:28.374+01:002012-06-04T14:08:28.374+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159779384533062822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-29774657984162200882012-06-04T14:07:54.890+01:002012-06-04T14:07:54.890+01:00I've struggled to understand the Stan Lee back...I've struggled to understand the Stan Lee backlash of recent years. I only became aware of it after Jonathan Ross's excellent Search for Ditko doc,and I know Ross wasn't being spiteful by any means.<br /><br />You know what? If music fan can ignore what goes on in Pete Townshend's browser history, I can CERTAINLY ignore Lee's credit grabbing. Stan is the man.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks Andrew. Always enjoy your comics stuff.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159779384533062822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-18658820675669158042012-06-04T13:59:25.601+01:002012-06-04T13:59:25.601+01:00Obviously the text and art in comics are read simu...Obviously the text and art in comics are read simultaneously to mutual benefit, so both are important. Thanks for your defense of Kirby's writing, but please note that not "everyone" agrees that Kirby's dialogue is terrible...some of us think that it is even at it's most awkward still very appropriate to Kirby's work and at its best some of the most moving in comics. The constant attacks on Kirby's text are usually made by those who have not read it or by pathetic souls who think Stan Lee and Don MacGregor are geniuses of prose.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523155502231302630noreply@blogger.com