tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post7787406049622121294..comments2024-03-17T11:05:22.464+00:00Comments on The Life And Opinions of Andrew Rilstone: Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-32556319535573685112020-04-28T17:46:43.319+01:002020-04-28T17:46:43.319+01:00Ah yes, that is what happened: https://www.patreon...Ah yes, that is what happened: https://www.patreon.com/posts/2270150<br /><br />I think muddling Snape with Voldemort is rather lovely. It will give your future biographers something amusing to point out.Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-73155112859784781172020-04-28T17:38:49.067+01:002020-04-28T17:38:49.067+01:00MIKE: I think I am referring to Hums of Innocence ...MIKE: I think I am referring to Hums of Innocence -- or did I call it Tangled Up In Pooh? -- which went out as a PDF to Patreons. I will did it up and send you one if I get a round tuit. It needs a rewrite because I get Snape muddled up with Voldemort in one of the sections. Andrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05786623930392936889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-80950277353768453972020-04-28T10:03:45.352+01:002020-04-28T10:03:45.352+01:00"I really do have a long piece on Winnie-the-..."I really do have a long piece on Winnie-the-Pooh (well, on children's books, really) that I haven't finished."<br /><br />Did this ever happen, Andrew?Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-3062461838361972832010-12-02T15:37:16.495+00:002010-12-02T15:37:16.495+00:00"The fact that Lewis never mentioned it is wh...<i>"The fact that Lewis never mentioned it is what PROVES that the theory is true."</i><br /><br />Such is Ward's emphasis on this, that if a tranche of documents were suddenly discovered in which Lewis confessed to the whole schema, he'd probably turn against the whole enterprise. And decide the books were based on the Seven Wonders of The Ancient World. Or the Seven Sisters. Or something else which very significantly had a seven in it.<br /><br />All this emphasis on it rending cohesive the imagery of 'Lion, Witch, Wardrobe'... but that's making the rather hefty assumption that the imagery <i>is</i> cohesive in some way. Yet sometimes "goo-goo goo-joob" just means "goo-goo goo-joob."<br /><br />(I'd suspect Lewis simply wrote "winter but never Christmas" as a catchy line, then decided afterwards that this obliged him into having Father Christmas turning up.)Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-15377737465399017882010-12-02T15:03:41.782+00:002010-12-02T15:03:41.782+00:00... and having compared my mapping with the one in...... and having compared my mapping with the one in the Stupid Astrology Book, I see that, like Andrew S., I got exactly one book "right" (i.e. the same as Ward).<br /><br />Anyone else want to have a go?Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-49308158976421737622010-12-02T14:55:54.005+00:002010-12-02T14:55:54.005+00:00Hmm. I am pleasantly surprised to find that my pr...Hmm. I am pleasantly surprised to find that my proposed scheme does not share even a single book-plant correspondence with Andrew Stevens's.Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-82233813461294844202010-12-02T14:46:26.009+00:002010-12-02T14:46:26.009+00:00I attempted my own challenge. Here's what I c...I attempted my own challenge. Here's what I came up with (without having read anyone else's proposals):<br /><br />The Magician's Nephew -- it's a shame that I have to start with the most tenuous one, but I gave this to Saturn, who is associated with dance, justice and the harvest (e.g. of the magical fruit)<br /><br />The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe -- it's largely about the end of winter and the return of day, so I gave it to the Sun.<br /><br />The Horse and his Boy -- Shasta and co crucially act as messengers, so Mercury?<br /><br />Prince Caspian turns on the fertility of the Narnian trees, so perhaps Venus, the goddess of (among other things) fertility?<br /><br />The Voyage of the Dawn Treader -- sailing under and endless open sky, at the mercy of the weather; the ship is wrecked in a thunderstorm. So Jupiter.<br /><br />The Silver Chair takes place mostly in the cold and darkness of night, which is associated with the moon: also, the metal silver is related to the moon in mythology.<br /><br />The Last Battle -- easy one: got to go to Mars, the god of war.<br /><br />So that's my mapping. I wonder how many I got the same as the Stupid Astrology Book?Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-11431314592930468472010-12-02T12:02:26.736+00:002010-12-02T12:02:26.736+00:00ridiculously long comment posted in wrong thread
...ridiculously long comment posted in wrong thread<br /><br />twiceAndrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05786623930392936889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-51150773654563495982010-12-02T11:59:16.839+00:002010-12-02T11:59:16.839+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Andrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16934052271846235431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-409027194369017942010-12-02T11:59:02.214+00:002010-12-02T11:59:02.214+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Andrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16934052271846235431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-15918922267650115292010-11-30T20:18:36.815+00:002010-11-30T20:18:36.815+00:00The Magicians Nephew, of course, involves a boy us...<i>The Magicians Nephew, of course, involves a boy using magic to save the life of his terribly ill mother. And the key magic item is a ring which comes from ANCIENT ATLANTIS.</i><br /><br />I call "Promethea!" The rings are key items, but what saves the mother is an apple. What's more, the apple keeps the doctor away and thus clearly shows that C S Lewis believed the site of Ancient Atlantis was in fact Pembrookshire.Sam Dodsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01534273379447820097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-16951737469828359012010-11-30T12:25:29.567+00:002010-11-30T12:25:29.567+00:00I am really not going to write my article until I ...I am really not going to write my article until I have re-read the book and highlighted bits with little yellow post it tabs.<br /><br />However.<br /><br />The fact that Lewis never mentioned it is what PROVES that the theory is true. It is a BIG SECRET that he hid in the books; he even DELIBERATELY LAID FALSE TRAILS but pointing to Christological readings which aren't there; we know he was the sort of person who would do this sort of thing because he WENT BY A NICKNAME, SOMETIMES USED A PEN-NAME, and DIDN'T TELL HIS FATHER WHEN HE MOVED IN WITH A MARRIED WOMAN. But an old pupil seems to remember that he once said that seven was a good number of books to have in a series of children's fantasy stories, because seven is a magic number. Which proves it.<br /><br />When Lewis's mother died, he felt that his whole world had changed, as if a great continent had vanished beneath the waves. The Magicians Nephew, of course, involves a boy using magic to save the life of his terribly ill mother. And the key magic item is a ring which comes from ANCIENT ATLANTIS. That's the sort of thing which make's me go. "Hmm....that's really, really interesting. I don't know what it proves, but it's really, really interesting." It comes from the Really Stupid Freudian Book. I didn't find many comparable observations in the Astrology book. (Though I didn't know what a keen amateur stargazer Lewis was, I must admit.)Andrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05786623930392936889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-67313790537782489492010-11-29T17:34:33.379+00:002010-11-29T17:34:33.379+00:00I am reminded of the theory that the seven castawa...I am reminded of the theory that the seven castaways in Gilligan's Island represent the Seven Deadly Sins. Some of these are obvious matches so we match Ginger with lust and Mr. Howell with greed. Then it starts reaching - the Professor gets pride and Mary Ann gets envy. These sort of work, but not really. The problem is that Mrs. Howell and Gilligan should probably both get sloth and we need the Skipper to get both anger and gluttony. Ultimately it just doesn't work and it clearly wasn't intentional on the part of the show's creators. But if you asked random people to match them up, you'd get much more similar lists than you ever would matching the planets to the Narnia books.Andrew Stevenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13453328821252013152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-61023520758978185912010-11-29T17:27:06.055+00:002010-11-29T17:27:06.055+00:00The persuasiveness and depth (or otherwise) of the...<i>The persuasiveness and depth (or otherwise) of the reasoning must be taken into account; not simply such tritenesses as 'first book has a lot of emphasis on female characters'.)</i><br /><br />That one was admittedly my process of elimination choice. I didn't think the Moon fit that book very well, but none of them seemed to. I haven't read the book, but I have read up a bit on Ward's theory since I made that list. Ward has stated that once you figure out that each book represents a planet, that it's "blindingly obvious." If that were so, you'd think my list would be a better match for Ward's, but in fact it matches exactly one (Prince Caspian for Mars).<br /><br />The most obvious reason why Ward is not correct is because Lewis would surely have mentioned this at some point in his voluminous correspondence if he had done it intentionally. (He was not shy about discussing such things.) Lewis did not mention it, ergo it was not intentional. That Lewis was well aware of medieval cosmology and that this likely showed up in his Narnia books, whether intentionally or not, is a trivial point, easily granted.Andrew Stevenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13453328821252013152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-2780518612938592642010-11-29T12:05:23.573+00:002010-11-29T12:05:23.573+00:00Gosh, I just wanted to say
a) Hooray! A new book,...Gosh, I just wanted to say <br />a) Hooray! A new book, exactly the right length to read in the bath and great value at £4.50<br />b) Yeh, £2.99 for postage is annoying, but imagine if you'd sent off an order yesterday with the code cyberuk305 getting 25% off, and now it won't let you do it again. <br />c) I was going to make a hilarious CS Lewis gag but I suspect the outcome may be unfavourable amongst such august company.Cannaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15714728788145149941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-29680164723587522182010-11-29T11:25:19.218+00:002010-11-29T11:25:19.218+00:00So in this case the comments are here before the a...So in this case the comments are here before the actual article?<br /><br />Is that postmodern? I find it hard to keep up...Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-51384481912958729342010-11-29T11:04:56.783+00:002010-11-29T11:04:56.783+00:00If I joined in this game, I wouldn't get aroun...If I joined in this game, I wouldn't get around to writing the actual article.<br /><br />We've all read "Promethea", haven't we? Absolutely everything is a symbol of absolutely everything else.Andrew Rilstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16934052271846235431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-15876116596503847422010-11-29T10:19:35.005+00:002010-11-29T10:19:35.005+00:00So after establishing I don't know the differe...So after establishing I don't know the difference, you refuse to explain it. <br /><br />Anyone else find the pedagogy lacking there?SKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09102522819364312684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-36287958832005720792010-11-29T10:18:32.705+00:002010-11-29T10:18:32.705+00:00You are confusing literary criticism with games of...You are confusing literary criticism with games of snap.<br /><br />(Further correspondence will not be entered into.)Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-28299118765902883732010-11-29T10:09:56.501+00:002010-11-29T10:09:56.501+00:00You know, I'm not sure I can tell the differen...You know, I'm not sure I can tell the difference; a lot of literary criticism <i>is</i> looking for patterns (after all, what is any symbol but a repeated pattern of connotative association?). <br /><br />So perhaps you might explain the difference to me?SKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09102522819364312684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-6320026674582095922010-11-29T09:33:23.689+00:002010-11-29T09:33:23.689+00:00SK, I am going to give you the courtesy of assumin...SK, I am going to give you the courtesy of assuming that you can tell the difference between 'literary criticism' and looking ass-backwards for all-embracing patterns.<br /><br />...in which case I think you are looking for a disagreement where none actually exists.<br /><br />'The Lion, The Witch and the wardrobe' (the one which introduces Aslan) is Doc. 'Dawn Treader' is Happy.Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-46972425096947167292010-11-28T23:53:08.417+00:002010-11-28T23:53:08.417+00:00While not, as I wrote, being convinced by Ward'...While not, as I wrote, being convinced by Ward's schema, I do find it more convincing than yours.<br /><br />Mike: while I suspect your experiment may provide interesting results, I do not think this is the kind of thing that can be settled by a vote. The persuasiveness and depth (or otherwise) of the reasoning must be taken into account; not simply such tritenesses as 'first book has a lot of emphasis on female characters'.)<br /><br />And what is more, it's totally wrong to say that looking for patterns 'just won't ever prove anything'. It may well not prove what you set out to prove, that is, the existence of the pattern, especially if you cling to 'the pattern' as the singular, reductive 'key to the cypher' proposed by the thesis; but, I think that Ward's book does prove something very important, which is the influence of the medieval cosmology on Lewis's fictional work. The form that influence took may not be the precise one-planet-one-book correspondence set out in <i>Planet Narnia</i>, but, having read it, I find it hard to deny that certain elements of certain books (such as Father Christmas, for example, or the dryads, ) were not influenced by aspects of the medieval cosmology.<br /><br />For the record, I am persuaded by Ward that the Narnia Chronicles are an attempt to integrate medieval symbols and tropes (including the cosmology) into a Christian paradigm, and that this makes sense of, for example, the superficially chaotic symbolism of <i>The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe</i> (though I think that some of the superficial chaos comes from the fact that at the time of writing the first book, Lewis hadn't quite worked out what his subconscious was doing; and that the more unified symbolism of later books reflects a greater awareness of his aim); but I am not persuaded that there was a deliberate attempt on Lewis's part to match one book to one planet. <br /><br />And moreover, I think that the idea that literary criticism 'can't prove anything' would not have found approval in the Pickerel, or any other pub near Magdalen. Unless the thesis you were trying to prove was spmething Lewis disagreed with, of course.SKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09102522819364312684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-44647323467326977042010-11-28T22:24:42.672+00:002010-11-28T22:24:42.672+00:00Given that everyone who has ever written about mag...Given that everyone who has ever written about magic and suchlike was really ripping off St JK Rowling, everyone knows that the Narnia books are really take-offs of the Harry Potter books. <br /><br />The Magician's Nephew was actually The Philosopher's Stone, dumbing down Philosopher to Magician for an American audience. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe was really The Half Blood Prince - both have a cupboards-as-transport motif. The Horse and His Boy is actually The Deathly Hallows, since it's mostly about camping. Prince Caspian is really the Order of the Phoenix - in both our heroes must defy the tyrannical rulers in secret. Voyage of the Dawn Treader is actually Goblet of Fire... there's eternal glory, or something. Silver Chair is really Prisoner of Azkaban - the prisoner appears evil but turns out to be good, and Last Battle is actually the Chamber of Secrets, because good people are persecuted in both.<br /><br />With such evidence of C S Lewis's flagrant plagiarism, how can you continue to laud this man? He even occasionally refers to boarding schools and once has something magical happen in a station.Helen Louisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07600284354557428351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-3117016205996967192010-11-27T12:19:34.528+00:002010-11-27T12:19:34.528+00:00Yes, but what about the seven dwarves?
The Silver...Yes, but what about the seven dwarves?<br /><br />The Silver Chair is quite obviously Sleepy, but from thereon in I'm stumped. Maybe The Last Battle is Dopey on the grounds that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9987513.post-90144327071849563432010-11-27T09:40:53.491+00:002010-11-27T09:40:53.491+00:00Okay, I'll bite. It's been a while since ...Okay, I'll bite. It's been a while since I've read the Narnia books (and I only saw the first film), but I'm confident that I remember the gist of all seven. My knowledge of medieval cosmology is fairly limited and it's just about impossible to research it within the confines of this experiment since probably 1/2 to 2/3 of the results I'm getting refer to the Stupid Astrology Book (though I was very careful to avoid spoilers so I still don't know anything), but my mythology is okay so I probably have the basic idea of what each planet represents.<br /><br />Sun- The Magician's Nephew (the Sun is usually associated with creation, yes?)<br />Moon- The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe (I must confess that this was my process of elimination choice, but I don't think it's a terrible fit - the Moon is usually feminine and the first book has a lot of emphasis on female characters with the main hero being Lucy and the main villain being the Witch)<br />Mercury- Voyage of the Dawn Treader (Mercury was the patron of travelers, yes?)<br />Venus- The Horse and His Boy (the only book which includes a love story as part of its plot, I believe)<br />Mars- Prince Caspian (IIRC, I regard this as the most warlike of the books)<br />Jupiter- The Last Battle (which would seem to be a good fit for Mars with the word "battle" in the title, but it's not a terribly martial book and, given the ending, should probably be associated with the king of the gods)<br />Saturn- The Silver Chair (I seem to recall that Saturn is associated in astrology with restriction and binding, which relates to the main plot of the book)Andrew Stevenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13453328821252013152noreply@blogger.com